FSD, Starlink never being jammed in Ukraine, Tesla Solar Roofs, and other such things are all things Musk has hyped up that are somewhat counter factual.

Why does it matter where he came from?

Because he’s an immigrant that made good on the American dream. That’s a powerful thing - some might even dare say, inspiring.

I realize he’s white, so it doesn’t count, but it should.

He was a RICH immigrant that made good on the American Dream. Having a truckload of money ready for you before you venture out in the world would be inspiring for anyone, believe me.

He may have started with less than the median American when he emigrated. Rich parent doesn't always equal rich kids. The ones that are mostly just consume. It's plainly obvious he's not some rich trust fund kid.

Which is why so many people are threatened by Elon's success and project their own insecurity onto him. Unresolved personal insecurity and envy are a potent combination. I promise this is unhelpful and it's better to resolve one's own insecurity than to spend time projecting it.

> He may have started with less than the median American when he emigrated

Except it is known that he didn’t. There is no need to speculate on the facts.

Elon Musk is far more successful than anyone else who started with his financial resources. He has outperformed everyone in his wealth bracket. There’s no need to pretend he was abandoned by his family and came to the US destitute.

Do we know that?

There are internet rumors vs what he, his mom and brother say about him showering at the YMCA and only being able to afford one computer when starting Zip2.

That's why I said "may have", because his mom and brother aren't non-bias sources, and nor are insecure people on the Internet who want to explain away why they have achieved little despite having relatively the same or more privilege. The latter project this discomfort the most aggressively.

Proof that he was rich? Everything I've read says he arrived to America with a couple grand.

Assuming this is correct he had money from someplace.

https://www.investopedia.com.cach3.com/university/elon-musk-...

"After two years at Queen's University, Musk transferred to the University of Pennsylvania. He took on two majors, but his time there wasn’t all work and no play. With a fellow student, he bought a 10-bedroom fraternity house, which they used as an ad hoc nightclub."

That says his father claimed to be rich on the past, and the Musk children made about $100M each from selling zip2 which they founded.

Exactly! Many people underestimate the value of privileges'. Privileges' give "unfair" advantage. Anyway, there are many people like these and Elon is few among them that have successful ventures like Tesla or SpaceX.

Very interesting editing to your original post, when making such drastic edits that change the tone as much as you did it would be useful to make note of them so everyone knows.

You asked about things he had said/promoted, or something like that, which I listed in the first sentence of my response, care to respond to them?

Aha is the American Dream be born to well off parents and emigrate to dodge a draft now?

The idea that his success is due to that is another olympic level contortion. He wasn't given millions of dollars to start, let alone billions. Even if he was, it would still be impressive converting that into Tesla and SpaceX, as opposed to a yacht.

Realize that most people born to well off parents don't do shit. If insecurity needs an outlet, maybe redirect it to the rich kids of Instagram, not the guy who is helping solve climate change and get us back into space.

I was not really commenting on how he achieved his success.

I was commenting on the appeal to the "American Dream(tm)".

Though if you want to follow it to the root if he was born black in the townships he likely would not have amounted to much, no matter how hard he worked it is unlikely he would have ever made it out of the country.

Seems a little strange to criticize the American Dream on the basis of South African apartheid.

yes, the american dream being "born rich" is the postmodern satire re-enactment of the original. It features a white african for diversity.

I don't understand why there would be something ironic, postmodern, satirical, or unexpected about a relatively privileged white South African who grew up in the era of apartheid being associated with space travel or other technology that is considered futuristic.

Nothing has changed. It is still as it has always been.

The US space program and the Moon landings can be traced directly back to Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr von Braun and his work at Peenemünde, utilizing slave labor to build rockets for Nazi Germany.

"More people died building the V-2 rockets than were killed by it as a weapon"

The course of history was shaped by Von Braun being terrified of the Soviets and choosing to surrender to Americans.

Some people see this sort of historical note as extremely relevant to everything today, and some don't. I see nobody trying to bridge that gap.

Okay i explain the joke to you: First and foremost note how the comments upthread used the term "the american dream". Second note that "the american dream" is a media trope, a literary device and story we tell people to inspire them to follow certain ethics.

The traditional american dream is about social upwards mobility from rags to riches, about a promise that all that is needed to become wealthy is hard work, determination, a bit of ingenuity and puritan virtues. In its classic version it often features an immigrant family who comes to america with nothing but worn out clothes, works hard jobs and long hours to create a livelihood, overcomes hardships and struggles so their kids can get an education and better jobs. It often also calls out oppression, poverty and war in the old world as reasons for migration and to further highlight the ideals of liberal society in america.

The modern version ignored the generational aspect and instead focused on individuals becoming millionaires. Entertainment loves extremes, the lower the start and higher the end, the better. The quicker the journey, the better. And this became accelerated to the absurd. Be poor, wash dishes, millionaire. Since this is so very unlikely, and real people who fit it, like Rockefeller, became so unpresentable, media turned more and more towards fictitious comedies. Yet this version is still very dominant in culture, because it calls out a truth: when asked what the american dream is, many will say it is about becoming very rich. That is, what the modern american dreams of.

Now in contemporary media we see a return to the original idea, but with twist lampshading its problems. Migration is no longer a central topic, america no longer the beacon of hope for the tired, poor, huddled masses. Instead we see a focus on the disenfranchised and marginalized within american society. The post-modern MTV generations version of the american dream is B-Rabbit living in a trailer park with his alcoholic mom, making it as a rapper despite his peers attacking him for having the wrong skin color. It plays the core straight about making it with hard work and being virtuous, but it doesn't only look at materialism and individualism, as it also expects society to hold its promise of being liberal. The postmodern loves to play with dualities and reversing structures.

Lastly the post-modern satire version instead picks up the part that got dropped, the dream of becoming very rich. It teasers a protagonist from an african minority and reveals a wealthy and well educated white man from south africa. It shows upwards social movement from upper class to ultra rich, subverting the idealistic to instead highlight the reality that those who start well have more opportunities to venture and do even better. It holds up "being born rich" like Diogenes holds a plucked chicken, and calls out "behold: the american dream"

The pattern that I pointed out, that includes Von Braun, and Musk, is of people who, whatever their advantages and sins, were not privileged enough to be born in the US, and they then found unimaginably more opportunity in the US than in their homeland.

Is that how some people conceive of the "American dream"? I don't know, but I think it's the easiest to find factual evidence of happening over a long period of time.

The only version of the "American dream" I've ever heard was getting a small house on a ~1 acre lot and starting a family. I don't know what all this about becoming a millionaire is from.

-- a idk probably 10th generation American living on the East Coast.

"American dream" suggests to me something distinctive that happens in America.

Neither your modest scenario nor becoming a millionaire are specific to the US. And neither can possibly happen for all Americans.

So if that's really what the American dream is defined as, I think it inherently defines the US as a failure.

> and has done more for climate change than literally anyone

What a sensationalist claim! What is the carbon offset of one rocket launch? If Elon stopped focusing on Mars, and instead bought every coal plant to then shutter and replace them (could be done for under 40b), then maybe. Until then, the few percentage of market share for EVs does not justify this claim. You also have to assume that every purchaser of a Tesla would have bought a gas car instead, which is seemingly not a safe assumption. So, citation needed! Maybe if elon purchased a train system and made public transit exceptional and widely used could a person start to make this claim. I thunk the sad reality is that elon is bored and us focused in sci fi that is more possible 500 to 100p years in the future (ie mars), at the expense of actually solving present day problems. Any regulation reducing coal emissions has an out-sized impact compared to a few percentage of emissions from non-commercial transport, the claim "more than anyone else" seems hyperbolic and just flat out wrong

Unless this takeover is being conducted by M&A professionals, and not the result of wine and ambien, I think OP has a point.